I've been using Debian testing for a while, and here's what I have to say about it
Debian testing
Advantages
- Plenty of packages in the repos
- apt is very fast
- Uses sudo as default if you tell it to
- No need to edit any configuration files
- Modular KDE
- Flash works on 64bit!
Disadvantages
- No AUR or anything similar so I have to compile packages the old fashioned way (./configure, make, make install)
- *-dev packages! These are horrible because you have to install a big bunch of them to compile something
- Hideous fonts to start with - I had to install patched Ubuntu packages, and now apt is complaining about it even though the packages work fine..
- Hard to get a hold of non-free packages
- Wireless doesn't work out-of-the-box
- Compiz makes scrolling lag
And now for Arch Linux
Arch Linux
Advantages
- Very fast
- Pacman even faster than apt
- Extra packages in the AUR like freetype patches. Much easier to install
- Wireless works out of the box
- No *-dev packages
Disadvantages
- No GUI (have to install from CLI after installation)
- Flash is very problematic on 64bit
- Compiz makes scrolling lag
- Have to configure things through configuration files (e.g. /etc/rc.conf)
- Hard crashes (have to reset computer)
- KDE isn't modular (but this is fixed with KDEmod)
So which one do you think is better? I should probably wait for the KDEmod live CD because pure Arch really isn't working for me...
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Thanks for the in-depth
Thanks for the in-depth comparison. To me, they're about equal. dofollow social bookmark site
When I am done doing whatever
When I am done doing whatever I have been doing, I can quickly switch to WMII and visualize the aggregate product of my work, specifically coding.
Regards,
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If you like to compile your
If you like to compile your own kernels, try out bleeding-edge CVS-only projects, or build a program from source every once in a while, Arch is better suited. If you want to get up and running quickly and not fiddle around with the guts of the system, Ubuntu is better suited. Arch is presented as a much more minimalist design from the installation onward, relying on the user to customize it to their own specific needs. In general, developers and tinkerers will probably like Arch better than Ubuntu, though many Arch users claim to have started on Ubuntu and eventually migrated to Arch!!
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Focused vs Unfocused Computing
In my experience, Debian-based distributions like Ubuntu are good for a general audience. Had I installed Arch coming directly from Windows, I might have succeeded in configuring the files and stumbling around what I now know as Vi, but I would not have grasped the concepts involved in installing or administering the system. In contrast, Ubuntu guides the user through virtually all essential processes with a preconfigured GUI.
I personally prefer Arch, coming from Ubuntu 8.04. One thing that heavily influences this preference and perspective is my prior knowledge and understanding of Vi. In general, the modularity, explicitness in file structure, and "building blocks" mentality suits more focused uses of the computer. In Ubuntu, as in Windows, you can do all sorts of complex things rather gracefully, but the mentality reflected in the selection of utilities, programs, and literature are directed to a more unfocused style of computing, or in other words, for "everyday use."
Since I am philosophically and analytically predisposed to the point of madness, Arch works better for me because I can create potentially very complex experimental systems for scientific use, like computational linguistics, machine-learning, coding, systems administration. Arch is more of a tool -- a "technology" in the true sense. If you install a minimalistic windows manager like WMII on top of Arch, the picture starts to come together. With moderate fluency in Vi, it is a visual and mentally-esthetic pleasure to switch between multiple terminals for editing text or visualizing text-based or symbol-based applications. I enjoy the speed and simplicity and Pacman isn't all that cumbersome for a learner. When I am done doing whatever I have been doing, I can quickly switch to WMII and visualize the aggregate product of my work, specifically coding. It's like being able to look at something both from the inside and the outside, being able to make more of a prediction as to what corresponds to what in each dimension.
Ubuntu has been great, but it is more difficult to disassemble to see how it works, partly because it is cluttered and partly because the installation process doesn't require the tenacity to learn.
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out of the box?
I'm just making the same comparison, I use Debian lenny and on one laptop I've installed Arch to compare.
I'm skeptical that wireless works "out of the box" in Arch considering that wireless-tools and wpa_supplicant have to be installed by the user, and either configured with text editor or have a frontend like networkmanager or wicd.
In Debian everything was ready, I just had to add ipw2200 firmware to /lib/firmware/. That firmware is now free so in future releases wifi should genuinely work out of the box with wpa, wep, vpn etc. With a wireless adapter with free driver and free firmware it already works ootb.
out of the box: well in Debian using the regular installer you get a complete DE ootb, in Arch all I got out of the box was a shell, the pleasure of vi and a lot of work to do.
Some of your points seem more to do with familiarity than anything else. There's no need to use Ubuntu packages for *anything* in Debian, you can get all the fonts you need from Debian repos including ms-ttf.
Adding non-free packages is as simple as adding non-free to the default repo line in /etc/apt/sources.list. Adding community contributed stuff is as easy as adding contrib to the same line (& contrib packages are supported by Debian security updates). Patent encumbered multimedia stuff is available from debianmultimedia repo, unofficial but maintained by a Debian developer.
Debian does require some terminal use, you certainly can't do everything via gui yet.
It's unusual to *need* to compile anything in Debian thanks to the enormous repositories but there are occasions when you might want to. I generally compile from source to get newest versions of certain applications but otherwise no real need. I can only think of two applications that I had to compile myself, coverfinder and emelfm2.
Modularised packages (separate -dev): I'm in two minds about this. It is a pita initially to install all the dev tools in Debian, but on the other hand they take up a lot of space and if you don't need them it's a waste of bandwidth and disk space. Ideally in a binary distro a regular user would never need them anyway but of course real life is different so Arch's vanilla approach is a benefit overall.
Speed: I suspect that pacman *is* faster than APT, however the Arch mirrors are noticably slower and fewer than Debian's and sometimes time out. But pacman is certainly an impressive tool, I like it a lot.
As for overall speed for the two distros I'll be doing some tests to compare. I'm not ready yet as still installing stuff onto Arch so the system is comparable to Debian (broadly same applications and services and DE). I've read so many claims but never seen real world data so I'm doing my own
Well...
By the fonts, I meant the subpixel hinting. KDE3 doesn't let you use subpixel hinting without the patches Ubuntu add to them (but KDE4 has it build in to Qt4 I think). I'd prefer smooth, clear fonts rather than pixelated MS fonts..so just wondering, is there any repo available for Debian that has patched freetype/libxft etc.
Also you're right about Debian working better out of the box. All I had to do was install and I was mostly done. Then next I had to install the firmware. That's good news that the firmware is now open
Yeah, the things I wanted to compile on Debian were quite obscure...so most users won't need to install things like that. For example I wanted a frontend to dpkg/apt to install stuff, it was called kdpkg I think...
Speed is true with pacman. I've always noticed slower speeds with downloading, but installing is always blazing fast. There's always a small pause when it goes to download the next package.
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Funny how things are different, I tried to install Debian Etch, and it crashed even without the Xserver running. I installed Arch, so you have to fiddle with one maybe two files but on my hardware it just rocks.
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I never could really get into
I never could really get into debian. people tell me it is a lot easier than older linux distros like red hat enterprise. I have always been a FreeBSD/RHE user, so not really familiar with the advantages of Debian over either.
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+1 for Arch rocking. I have
+1 for Arch rocking. I have never had a faster OS on my hardware. Tried a bunch of linux flavors and winXP at one time...BTW I love to configure.
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